We return to the days on the west coast, McKinley had a big culture shock when he first got out there. He had been very used to the Detroit way of arranging and producing, working on the floor of the studio, in the sessions. Making changes on the hoof as the session evolved, and taking a lot of input from the musicians, just one big creative melting pot.

But at ABC, he say's 'things were much different, your job as producer, was to bring in all these different people who worked on contract, have everything prepared and work from the control room, more overseeing the process, than getting involved on the floor, other people you employed did that'.

I ask did he feel this was a bad thing, 'No, just a different way of doing things, and it taught me about discipline in the recording process'.

So how did he come to work with Reggie Garner at ABC?

‘Reggie Garner, Reggie Garner',  he says searching through his memory and looking somewhat distant at me.

Then suddenly, he's back 'little Reggie, oh yes I remember him great voice. He came to me on contract, you see we would have our own artist and others that we we would work with as part of the house contract.

At this point we talk about the very distinctive string arrangements, that by that time had become his signature. Something you can hear on the ESP album and Reggie Garner's, tracks 'Half a cup' and 'That ain't the way (You make love)'. He smiles, "we did do some good tunes back then didn't we".

We move on to the period after those hectic times at ABC. McKinley went back out on the road with Marvin Gaye, as musical director on his last tour. "That was a bad gig, nearly destroyed many of the people that worked on it. It was just a heavy thing, all the drugs and people around Marvin. One guy committed suicide, opened his hotel room one morning to find a pile of coke outside his door, a message from some bad people. No, found it hard to work for a while after that.’

music: "Half A Cup" - Reggie Garner (ABC ??)

Continued